As a cultural commentator and social media influencer, Chris Durso often takes to social platforms to not just share his mind, but share what he believes are important truths with the masses, in effort to challenge and provoke thought in a new way. As you can imagine, this approach comes with constant backlash from many. In this episode, Chris shares how he became so bold, how he deals with being misunderstood, and so much more!
To follow Chris and see what he's culturally weighing in on, search @chrisdurso on IG.
To purchase his book "The Heist" click here.
To purchase his book "Misfit" click here.
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70% of people do not have a single person that they can call in the middle of a crisis. Let's face it, we are relationally broke. And my mission is to make that percentage zero. But how? By building relational wealth, the embodiment of all your relationships with yourself with others and experiences that enrich your life. I promise you this podcast will help you build wealth in every way that money cannot. And it all starts by being accidentally intentional. Let's begin. Welcome back, everyone to another accidentally intentional podcast episode. I'm very excited about this one, because we have in the house, an international speaker, communicator, Best Selling Author of not one but two books misfit and the heist. And this guy is a social media influencer, if I can call you that, Chris, because you really do influence a lot of people. He's a cultural commentator. So please welcome Chris Durr. So everybody what an honor it is to be on. Thanks for having me. And thank you for that introduction. By the way, I never looked at myself as a social media influencer. So I accept it. I'll take it. Chris, you have influenced me and you continue to on your weekly if not daily posts that you put up because you hit me square in the chest with conviction. And honestly, I think we all need a little bit more in our life. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. Thank you for having me. Of course. So Chris, this entire podcast is about teaching people how to build relational well. So I always like to start the episodes by asking the guest in your relationships, what are the three most important characteristics or traits that you look for? Well, we're coming out swinging, I like it. I'm always gonna look for I'm always going to look for authenticity, authenticity, for me, is everything. Because Authenticity will allow me to know how far we're willing to go in conversation. And are you going to give me your true self? Or you're going to give me your project itself? You're going to give me the person you want people to believe that you are, are you going to talk to me about who you actually are. And I'm only 39. But I've been in ministry, my whole life, grew up in church, traveling, preaching, teaching all that good stuff since I was 23. And because I've seen so much, I just feel like if I'm going to be in relationship with someone, I don't get any time to waste. Like, if we're gonna do this, let's, let's do this. So yeah, I look for authenticity. I look for transparency. And I look for loyalty. And when I say loyalty, I'm not speaking from the sense of like, you got to ride or die with me. No, no, I'm talking about like, loyalty to who you say you are. And committed to getting better. Because none of us who we are today are going to remain this way. Well, well, at least hopefully not. Hopefully, we get better. So hopefully, we're loyal to God ultimately, is what I'm trying to trying to say. Yeah, no, I love that in those are all such important characteristics. Which begs another question for you. Because I always say that millennials are really good at sniffing out someone who's inauthentic. But then again, this whole social media driven culture makes me feel like we are equally not as good at it. So how have you been able to decipher through all of your kind of skill sets and opportunities that you've been given in life? What actually is defined as authenticity? Yeah, that's a great question. I remember when I first started off with a story here, I remember when I first started traveling, and I remember being invited to a conference, and I was a speaker at this conference. Now, full disclaimer, I did not grow up in a church where they did conferences, I did not grow up in a church where you had guest speakers. And, you know, here I am growing up in Queens and Brooklyn, New York, because that's where our churches, I didn't know any other churches existed. So I grew up in church, but I didn't grow up like church, a church, if that makes sense. And so when I started traveling, the first conference I ever attended was the one that I was invited to preach at. And I remember being there and one of my best friends called me it was like, Hey, bro, I just spoke to the guy running the conference. And he says, You just seem really angry. And I'm like, angry Nam. I'm honored to be here. What do you mean? He's like, Yeah, like, you're in the car with your driver. You guys are in talking. You're, you're sitting in the back room before the service after the service, and you're not really talking and I just kind of like broke down. I was like, bro, I don't know what to do. I don't even I never even been around this before. I don't I don't know if I'm supposed to be talking to people or not talking to people. And that was such a learning moment for me because naturally, I am a social person. And I'll talk to anybody. And I remember going in that moment thinking, you know, my 23 year old mind, don't allow the moment to eat you up. Just Just be who you are. And so when I think about authenticity in the way you just framed question. I think I think that's it right there. I think that in this world, we have to, we have to understand that that we're all living on the same planet, you could project that you're on some other level of spirituality or enlightenment, and somehow that makes you better than anyone. I just don't think it's going to work. I don't, I don't think it's going to I don't think it's going to last. So I think it boils down to understanding who you are, and being comfortable enough in your own skin and being comfortable enough in your own skin that if someone doesn't like who you are, that's okay, you keep moving, but not pretending or projecting to be. So I want to ask about this moment, because I actually feel almost burden sometimes where whenever I go into a place, I kind of carry this lens of like, every opportunity is an opportunity for influence. And you never know who's watching you. So that that example of that story you gave, how do you kind of wrestle with this idea of this is a kind of good burden to have, but also not letting it eat you alive of like, I need to be perfect at every second because anyone could be watching. Yeah, I think I think people are always watching. I heard a stat the other day that nine out of 10 people that recognize you on the street won't approach you. So this is true for for really anyone doesn't matter, you know, your status over there, none of them at nine out of 10 people who recognize someone on the street, will not approach them. And when I heard that, I was kind of taken aback. And I just thought to myself, Oh, well, thank God, thank God that I learned early on that, you know, you could be stopped anywhere you could be stopped, you know, at the airport, you could be stopped at the restaurant, you could be seen at the airport, you could be seen at the supermarket. And honestly, remain approachable, remain, remain honest, remain authentic. I think that if someone has the courage to, to approach you, you want to take them up on the opportunity to have a conversation, regardless of who you are. By the way, I also think there are tough moments when we're having bad days. And I'm only saying that to get back to your question because no one's perfect. And that's why I try to live my life as authentic as possible. I don't ever try to behave that everything is perfect. If I am dealing with something personally, I'm going to talk enough about it. So that this idea that oh, Chris, because he's a pastor, he must be okay. I think that's some of the most bizarre, I was gonna say bizarre way of thinking. But I just think that some bizarre behavior and and I think that's what the previous generations have done before us. But they didn't have social media, so they didn't realize the damage that it could do. So I'm not even saying that to hate on the previous generation. I just think that we thought that we were supposed to behave a certain way. And everyone kind of minds their own business. And but I think in this day and age, I think it's really important that we embrace who we are. And we know that we're not perfect. And there are probably moments where I got to bed and I was annoyed or I somebody cut off and I kind of just cut them off. Right right again. And then going Dang, I probably knew that got, in fact, this actually happened to be what I was leaving a funeral. And I hadn't seen a friend in a really long time. And this person probably was about 15 years older than me. And at the funeral were hugging Oh, my goodness, so good to see you. And I was driving on the highway with my wife and family. And we were just talking and I cut them off. I did not purposely cut the person off, but I cut them off. And then next thing I know that the person comes around me, gets in front of me and starts giving me the finger out the car. And then 10 seconds later realizes that it's Chris. And then I realize that a Tim Tony, a now we're making eye contact, and my heart broke for him. To be honest with you. It wasn't funny. He actually didn't even come back to the funeral later that day for that for the evening service. And he was supposed to, and I just I just go, Ah, I think we give people room to not be perfect, by the way. And just go Yeah, yeah, you had a moment. But my heart definitely broke for him. Yeah, well, that's a really good story. And thank you for sharing that. Because that does go to the table the importance of the grace that we're also supposed to give ourselves we definitely need to get. That's why I answered it that way. Because I think that if, if we're gonna give ourselves grace, we better give grace first. I think so often, especially in this generation. Everybody demands grace from God for themselves, but they call for justice for everybody else. And I think may timeout timeout, if we're going to talk about canceled culture is then we're all canceled, then cause who's perfect. Who Who here hasn't hasn't been a contradiction? Who here hasn't said one thing and then the other we all have there's not a person alive? That hasn't so if we're going to You asked for grace, we gotta give grace. Yeah. No, that's, that's so powerful. And I also just want to commend you, because since we met at a conference recently, I just want to say how well you display authenticity. And, and just conversationally, you put the person who is in front of you, as the only person in the room to you. And that really makes people feel seen. And so I just want to commend you and say thank you for that, because that's why we're having this conversation today as a result of that. Thank you. I, you know, I gotta I gotta say that that's definitely what some trial and error again, like I shared with you that that first moment, and I'm sure I've had other moments where you're just trying to try to figure it out, what do I say? How do I, how do I respond? You know what I've also learned, though, like you said, something very kind, but also said that it's true that there would be people that would be in conversation with someone and not being engaged, because they wouldn't be talking to them, but they would be looking past them. And you know, right, you said, the conference setting. So we all know that conference setting where, hey, you doing all right, good to meet you. And then all of a sudden, you're like, Who's that over there? And who's that over there? And I'm just like, I never want to be that person. Like if if I'm supposed to meet someone great. If I'm not great. I mean, you know, I would describe that behavior as thirsty, to be honest with you, like people are so thirsty to meet, to meet other people. And just to, you know, Pat, someone on the head, all thank you for the accolade notes keep moving, it's like, it doesn't work, it doesn't last, that way of living does not work. And you never create any real relationship out of it. Because really, the person that behaves that way, is only going to build a relationship predicated off of what somebody else can do for them. As opposed to man, I just want to learn a little bit more about what you're doing. And I want to learn a little bit more about what you got going on. You have a podcast, man, that's awesome. Tell me about the podcast. It's about relationships. It's about being intentional. It's about it's about growing organic relationship. Yeah, let's do that. Because we need them more than ever. So thanks for chatting with me at the conference, by the way. Oh, of course. And so so that's what brought this up is for everyone listening to give some context. I have followed Chris for years on Instagram. And then I noticed him and I was like, I can't say anything, because I'm talking to other people. And you know, I don't want to be the person that interrupts the conversation to act like what I'm saying is most important. And so basically, at the end of the evening, I approached him and said, Hey, I just want to thank you, because your boldness has impacted my life in a profound way. And so I want to talk to you about this boldness that you have, Chris, because I know that you do didn't come out the womb, being bold, or at least I'm going to assume not that this was also a learned behavior. And so when I see you being a cultural commentator online, and saying stuff that nobody actually wants to admit, and posting it boldly knowing that you are going to get backlash about it. I just want to know, how did this start? What was the genesis for you just putting your front foot forward into this? Man? It's actually a really deep question, probably deeper than you even understand. I was always I was always allowed kid. Only because I learned I had to be loud in order to survive, or at least that's what I thought. So I'm born and raised in Queens, New York. And I grew up in going to church in Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Brooklyn, Ridgewood, Queens, for anyone that knows New York knows what that would mean. My middle school was in Flushing, Queens, my high school was in Jamaica, Queens. And there were so often so many things that I had to just work against things that did not work for me. Often, I was the only white kid in the group. I was chubby for a little bit, had a bowl haircut. And I'm the pastor's kid. So I got made fun of a lot. And I felt like if I didn't learn how to be loud if I didn't learn how to be funny if I didn't understand culture. So I grew up in a culture where, you know, hip hop was everything. It's probably why I have such a passion for for music, and I love culture. I love hip hop. It's because I grew up in it. But if I didn't know what I was made fun of, if I couldn't at least play basketball, I wasn't great at basketball. But if I couldn't at least hang on the court as one of the 10 people running a full court game. I was going to be made fun of because I already had so many things are working against me. Or I would say I believe that these things were working against me. They might not have been true, by the way. Yeah, I've had moments where I got beat up or robbed because I was white. And they told me that sure, but to a certain degree, a lot of people go through different things like that. So right I'm no victim, but I'm only saying that to say that I was working through those through those thoughts as a kid so if I was going to hang You know, my friends, and I didn't want to get left behind or made fun of I didn't want to be the butt of the joke. But I would be the ones making the jokes, or I would be the one pointing things out, or if I was getting made fun of, but I didn't like it. I was gonna say something. And I think growing up the way that I grew up, you know, Queens is the most diverse place on the planet noted by National Geographic. Like, you know, we say things like this all the time, you know, my city's most unchurched city in the world, like people say that stuff. But like No, Queens is the epitome of diverse. And growing up in that it, it taught me how to find my voice, it taught me how to, to survive, I'm actually really grateful for my upbringing. Now, what I've also learned, in the recent year, I had uncovered some childhood trauma in my own life that I had suppressed, and that I had repressed I never shared with anyone, only until 2021. And think about it, I was a child, when this happened to me, I never shared with anyone 37 At the time, and all this stuff comes out. It was an area of my life that I never shared with before. And what I have been on the journey on constantly, whether it's culture, whether it's emotional, whether it's mental, whether it's relational, we have to speak up. That's why we have a voice. Because no one else is going to say what we need to say for us. And the only reason why I'm framing my question is because I'm sure that you have a really best audience. And there are people that could relate at a certain level, whether it comes to influence or being a leader. And then I'm sure there are other people that are working through their own trauma, by the way that have never shared it with anyone. And I think there's something so important about speaking. So as much as you you compliment me about being a cultural commentator, which I really love that term, by the way. So thank you for that. There were there were areas of my life where I would I didn't say anything, because I was embarrassed. I had shamed Why did this happen to me? Why would I be the person that would have to deal with this as a, as a kid, and I just think there's so much beauty in talking and talking honestly, because all I want to do is share what I believe to be right, and what I believe to be true, according to the Word of God. Now, if somebody disagrees with that, I'm really good with that conversation, too. Like I'm good with being corrected. I was talking to somebody, I hired a new a virtual assistant. And I was calling her Callie. But her name is Kaylee. And I said, Hey, Kelly, can you help me do XY and Z? And she said, yeah, no problem. So but just so you know, my name is pronounced Kaylee and I went, Oh, great. But I think there might have been someone that heard that, let's say differently, be offended by that. Well, why didn't you tell me why it's, it's as simple as just saying it out loud. So I think that the I think what I've learned, so now go back to really answering your question here is I think that boldness, boldness helps all of us to be on the same page. Because I think there's nothing worse to be in relationship with someone and not really know what they're thinking, actually think that's more offensive than anything else. If we're going to be a relationship, I want to know what's on your mind. Don't just give me the response, you think I want to hear, talk to me, share with me what you're really thinking. So if I'm going to be a pastor in this world, or an author or speaker, I'm wasting people's time, if I'm doing something, if I'm just telling them a whole bunch of stories and making them laugh, or, you know, saying certain things that I know may get them going but doesn't challenge their soul. I want my soul to be challenged, I want my spirit to be challenged. I love that. And I kind of want to articulate what you're not saying first, because you weren't saying if you are emotionally bleeding out, you should be saying everything you want to say. And so I kind of want to ask you about a person who because you mentioned a traumatic childhood, which those impacts how you see the world. Right? So how do you put guide rails up for yourself to make sure that you're not speaking out of what you believe to be true in the moment, which to somebody could be a really painful experience and kind of spewing hatred. Sometimes if I can just articulate that. How do you put up guardrails to speak what's genuinely true, even if it's difficult, and not what you feel in the moment? Well, I think though, I think that in the moment is a dangerous space. Anytime we're sharing anything, right? There's a difference between a reaction and a response. You know, I don't want to give a reaction, I want to give a response, you know, a reaction is, you know, I touch the stove, it's hot, I pull my hand, you know, I see something I say something. But without the context of something without the understanding of what it is you're actually seeing. You could have the wrong response or the wrong reaction or responses is calculated. A response is well thought out. Like I just shared with you that I went through something as a child. I did not share with you the details of what I went through. Nor did I suggest what it was that I went through, people could speculate, but that's up to them to speculate. And I think it would be silly for anyone to speculate because they don't know the details of what it is now saying all that to say, I think that we have to learn how to filter what it is we do believe, I believe in relationship, I believe in relationship with God, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, my wife, my therapist, my peers, who are also let's say, thought leaders, or pastors or spiritual leaders, I wanted to be able to be accountable to them and filter my thoughts with them, so that I'm not just talking irresponsibly. You know, I remember putting up a post might have been a year ago or something like that, and one of my friends within 10 minutes of the post being up, just wrote, man, that was a lot. And I go, What do you mean? And he goes, I just don't think that was the best post. So we'll tell me why. Four, he told me, I archived the post, because I trust him enough to see something that maybe I was in sync. So I want to help people think, and I want to make them uncomfortable from so that they could break the cultural norms or the things that are going on their lives that they shouldn't be. What I don't want to do is hurt people. But I don't want to do is say something so bluntly. So if I say something in such a way that it hurts someone, that means I missed the forest for the trees, because I got my point out, but the point didn't connect because of the language that I use. You know, the Bible says He who installs as why so I want to use the wisdom in the words that I use and how that I use it. My goal is not to offend someone, my goal is to help someone grow. So then let me shift the way that I'm communicating and sharing it. So I would say to anyone that is going through a hard time or angry, I would I would encourage you seek the Holy Spirit, I would encourage you to get to prayer, I would encourage you to find yourself a therapist, get some people that you could help talk some of this stuff out before you share it with the world. I'm not sharing anything publicly, that I haven't already worked through, or talked through or lived through. I mean, it's just constant thoughts that say like that may come to my mind, but want to share anything premature? Sure, that's a great articulation. You know, because you share a lot and you are trying to provoke a certain level of thought from your audience. I can imagine that's so difficult to do in short form content, because a lot of context could be missing, and people can draw their own conclusions. So what have been some consequences of that that you have needed to work through? I think I think it's that's a great question. I like that question. Because it puts the ownership on me. I think that so often people will make their own assumptions about why something is or what something was said. Or, let's say I say something about, I don't know, purpose. Now I'm completely making this up. But But I say something about purpose. And then they go off. I heard Pastor Chris speak at a conference. And the theme for that conference was called purpose. He must be talking about these people. Like we deal with that all the time. You're like, wait a minute, no, that's so silly. I would never reduce myself to, to, to post something that has to do, it's a backhanded, you know, underlying statement, a sub tweet, if you will, about someone that I'm talking about them without. And I won't do that. However, there have been times, especially as a young leader, where I was going through something with someone that I was working through, and I did share about it. And then they hit me up, amen. That felt like it was towards me. And I go, it wasn't towards you. But I definitely got the thoughts from what we went through. And then I realized, that's, that's it right there. That's actually really important, Chris, be really careful. Because the end of the day, you do not want to encourage the masses and hurt a friend. It might be helpful for the masses. I don't want to hurt a friend. So when I think timing is everything, too, I think we have to we have to really drill down on what we're trying to say. I think short statements are better when it comes to social media, because people's attention span is only but so big. But I also think the format in which it's displayed, so like I, I try to post things that are just like clean and have an aesthetic that it's kind of just the same thing every time so you know who it's coming from. But, you know, I've had to work on making sure that I'm not saying too much, what's the heart of the statement? And each statement would be my approach in writing it. So can you read it and understand it? I would apply the same rule and sermonizing. Like I have two rules that I always apply when I'm writing a sermon and one of them is assume nothing on your audience. So I don't ever want to assume that everyone in the audience knows what I'm talking about, just because it famous verse, you know, I could be talking about John 316. But I need to not just assume that everyone knows what John 316 is, or, you know, Hey, today I want to talk to you about Moses, you know, Moses, he saw the prince of Egypt. Maybe they didn't see the prince of Egypt, you know, most likely they didn't, by the way, because of how old the movie is, at this point, if they don't have a clue, so don't assume on the audience. So break it down in such a way that it's like you're sharing it for the first time, so that everyone can be on the same page. And I just think these are the kinds of thoughts we want to apply when we're communicating. Yeah, I love that, you know, as you're talking about someone just taking stuff out of context, this wasn't even on my personal page. But for the company that I'm a part of somebody was just, I mean, taking something. So it was as if they pause what we wrote, finish it on their own, put it in a blender, and then said, Oh, and just like, a costed our character. And I was like, how do people handle this? Like, I don't know how you handle people genuinely coming to assault, you're very gonna tell you. You don't? Okay, you don't need to respond. That's hard. Oh, it's so hard. Yeah, I'm kidding me. Thank God for my wife, by the way, we've had so many moments, if she was here, she would tell you where she was like, stop responding to people's comments, you know, stop explaining to them what, because people are going to project onto you what it is that you're saying. We're talking specifically about their situation. I think at the root of that, what you have to say to yourself is, this person really is not dealing with me as their problem, this person is dealing with themself as a problem, and is using what I say to work through it. So if they have some unresolved hurt, or unresolved trauma, or some relationships that when south or south, or maybe they have an issue with the church, right, I'm a pastor. So that would be my, where people come from their their own church hurt. I have nothing to do with that. But what I don't want to do is make them feel small, because they happen to see what I said. And then, you know, take it and run with it. Really, my heart breaks for the male, what did they go through that they can't even hear a statement like Love thy neighbor, without getting triggered? You're triggered off of Love your neighbor, you don't know my neighbor did send me I told him, I loved him, but he didn't love me. And he did this. And he took advantage of me. And we know how it goes. And this is what they mean. That's not what I meant. But but in a day and age of social media, where it's a bit of the wild, wild west, you have no idea what's on the who's on the other side of that screen one, two, drama sells. So people are always going to look for drama, more than they're going to look for goodness. Because goodness doesn't sell reality show goodness doesn't make headlines drama does. So if they want more likes on their page, they're going to do what they need to do to get influence. It is what it is. And I just think the best thing to do is not response. But one of my mentors told me a while ago, he said, Chris, the people's comments on your pages, and then your business stopped responding. And I just didn't good or bad. I just don't respond. And I don't mean anything. I just know that if I respond to one, someone else is going to be offended that I didn't respond to them. So I don't respond. I don't erase comments. I don't take away comments. I don't add to the comments back in the day, but a DM somebody would have said what are you doing? Why are you attacking me this way? I just learned it doesn't matter. If people have made up their mind about you know, side conversation is gonna help them. So how do you respond? Don't don't, you know, I was talking with my husband about this last week. And he said, you know, we should start doing, we should start praying for them instead. And I was like, wow, that's gonna get like pretty long. So. But another visual that has been really helping me with this is the idea of pulling the plug on a microphone. Because it becomes an interview if you respond, and then you're going back instead of just being like, okay, and so yeah, I really appreciate that heart is it? How hard is it to come to the same point of understanding with someone you're in a relationship with you and your husband, you and your best friend could disagree with how to use social media. So you're making your case as to why you approach it this way. They're going to make this their case why your case is wrong. And then hopefully, whoever is truly right we can get to the boat. Some of the stuff is gray. So no one's truly right but we'll agree to disagree and we'll be able to go on. It's impossible with with a stranger. There's no relational equity. There's no Understanding there's there's no awareness at all, All there is is an opinion, an opinion outside of a relationship. It's not going to go really far. So that could be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. You know, I'm also assuming that you're a challenger in your relationships. Totally. And so with that, with that being the case, I think I've seen more challengers come alive since 2020. For a myriad of reasons, but they're somewhere just everything they're posting, you're like, oh, my gosh, cool down, like you need a hug. So how do you balance being a challenger in your relationships, because it's one thing on social media, it's another when you're doing life with people, because nobody obviously wants to be bashed over the head with everything they're doing wrong all the time, or all their blind spots. So I'd love to hear your insight there. That's a really good question. Yeah, I am a challenger. If you pay attention to Enneagram, I'm Enneagram. Eight, through and through, which means I don't mind confrontation, you know, for me, challenge is love. If we're walking, and we're talking, and my breath stinks, and you say, Hey, man, let me give you a tic tac. That is like, that's a love language. To me. It's like, thank you so much. You know, if I have something in my teeth, and you don't tell me and you allow me to walk into a crowded room full of people, I'm gonna be like, we were just waiting, I would have told you. So. You know, there's a verse in the Bible that says he, a wise man loves correction, a full rejected, a wise man loves correction, a full rejects. And my mindset has always been, I want to be wise. Now, let me I'm not saying that to say that because I confront him. Why is it in any one? I'm not saying that at all. But my frame of thinking is, I want to be wise. Therefore, I never want to think that I'm perfect. I can always grow, I can always get better. And I do think that there's something to that kind of mindset, because any one that I know that's truly successful, things like that. I have some really great friends, men, women, pastors, leaders, CEOs, and they all kind of think this way. And they're all different on the, you know, Enneagram scale or whatever. But they all share this in common that they want to get better, therefore they never run. So I have that in my mind. However, I have had moments where I've just gone to lunch with the truth and the challenge, without without being without being understanding that these words are going to come across overwhelming to someone if they don't hear my tone. Like if you were to text me. You had stuff in your teeth to take it out. Or I don't think that was the best post. I'm like, Oh, great. Thank you so much. Because I don't want to have to jump through hoops and do all the formalities of how are you doing, man? God bless. I don't want all this told me that. That's how I look at it. Right. But some people don't look at it that way. And I think that's what the human experience is all about. That's what harmony is all about that, that I lean into you and you lean into me. And we give each other the benefit of the doubt. I think post pandemic though, I think there's been a massive shift, because everyone was in survival mode, trying to figure out how to live. I mean, they were just trying to survive. And I think that what a lot of people have learned is that we have to say the truth. But we also we also have to be really wise in the words that we use in sharing the truth, because you did not have a clue. But where somebody is that emotionally, or mentally they could have just lost a loved one. They could just have gotten the worst news. I mean, this day and age, it's it's not shocking when someone gets bad news, like let's say it would have been previously it just feels like it's nonstop. And although I'm somebody with full of hope, it just seems like things are getting heavier and heavier. So I always try to have that in the back of my mind, too, if I am going to challenge someone or confront somebody on something. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good distinction. Because you know, how common it is for someone to be like, I don't mean be rude, but Well, that should be your indication what's about to come out of your mouth should not. And you know, when people say like, I like I'm being blunt, or I like being blunt, or what when they say the word blunt. It shouldn't stay with just blood. It should just as you're saying, I love how you are articulating that, it should come with understanding as well. You know what's so funny? What, when people say that what they're saying is I want to pass on my inability to filter my own thought before I say it. So I want to correct you, but I want you to accept what I haven't corrected within myself. That's what they're saying, you know me, I'm just blunt. Well, we can all be beloved, it's easy to be blown. What takes what takes work is treating people kind because it goes against our selfish nature. So let me put a little bit more thought into this statement before saying well, you know how I am or, you know, I'm just blunt like, first off, and now if we're talking about Christians, and we're talking about believers, how is it possible that the same power that conquered the grave lives on the inside of you, but you can't even say And a statement, you can't even respect kindly. I don't know, man, I don't I don't, I don't think you understand what it looks like to die to yourself daily that that would be my challenge to someone. Because I think so often the reason why I'm going this extreme with it is because people will will give themselves a pass, and they do not realize the weight of their words. The Bible says that the tongue has the power of life, and death. And they think that because they want to say it, they should say it. Well, then what's the difference between you and a toddler? A toddler says whatever they want a grown adult, speaks like an adult. When I was a child, I walked like a child, I talked like a chatbot. When I became a man, when I became a woman, I put childish ways behind me that that's not only talking about how we walk, it's talking about how we talk, it's talking about how we, how we say things, we don't just say what comes to mind, we say what needs to be said. But we also say it in a wise way, you know, I want to go back to this comment you made about a reaction versus response. Because you talk about a lot of cultural moments that are happening on on your social media, for instance. And I'd love to know, how you decide what you will and will not respond to in a public forum. You know, I recently posted about a movie that I took my kids to see. And I was really excited to see the movie. It was the it was the second shazam movie, we really loved the first one, we actually watched it a few times as few times as a family. So when we went to go watch the second one, you know, my kids are 16 and 13. So it's not like we have to filter them that much. Like we have a pretty honest conversations, we have honest conversations about what we call, watch what we don't watch, it'll be cool to watch it, we're going to trust that it's good. But when we watch it, and this, this underlying theme was prevalent and pervasive throughout the entire movie, I thought to myself, I wish somebody would have told me. So when I'm sharing that post, it's, it's not to take money out of the pockets of Hollywood, it's it's to warn the parent to warn the parent that is looking to spend quality time with their children, and then now has a moment of regret, because they don't know when they're gonna get another night free to go to the movies again, that's that's, that's my frame of thinking like, I wish somebody would have told me as a dad, I wish somebody would have told me as a parent. So let me share this so that somebody doesn't fall into the same same situation that I fell into, you know, I get I get passionate about about certain things. I think we're I'm most passionate in this day and age because of how how big politics have become within the church between the left and the right. I don't understand that as a believer, how we are so bold to, to so boldly pick one side and speak about it be so dogmatic about what it is that we believe, when there are parts to what you're picking that goes against the word of God. And this is why I speak so much in terms of the kingdom of God, because the Kingdom of God is its own ecosystem, you know, the king is the king of the kingdom. And the king says, This is how we ought to live. And the kingdom of God is the culture of the decisions of the king. So I only say that to say, if it contradicts or comes against the kingdom, I don't care if it's coming from the right side, or the left side. It's my job as a kingdom ambassador to to warn all my other brothers and sisters who are part of the Kingdom of God, that, hey, we're not going to accept that. And we're not going to accept that. You know, again, it goes back to my my upbringing. I grew up in New York, it's so diverse. You don't get any more left than the New York City. But then I grew up in church. I've also preached around the world and in different cities in really, you know, right, swinging churches, and I thought, well, those comments would never would never last in New York, because what you think is a joke is actually racism. So we're not going to let that slide either. And I think if we don't make people aware of these things, we're going to just go on, like, it's okay, but we're all thinking it going. How is it that we're reading the same Bible serving the same God? And you're telling me you have more belief in a political candidate, and you'll dismiss their foolishness and accept behavior that you would not accept from your own child? You wouldn't accept from your own worship leader if you were a pastor. But now you're endorsing this, this this person is a political candidate candidate as if they are the man of God. No one is God but Jesus. So let's just say humans are human. You're here's one of my favorite statements. The best of men are men at best. How good is that, quote, the best of men are men at best and no other words. I'm not going to put all my eggs into one person. I'm putting all my eggs in the basket of Jesus. He's my Lord. He's my God. Everyone else is able to to fail, and they will, all of us will fail. Therefore, let's correct it so we can get better together. That's really convicting. And I really appreciate it. Because you're not just saying it. Like, if you're watching this on YouTube, you see like his entire body language change, because he's like, No, this is what I believe in, this is what I'm passionate about. And it's so much bigger than you. And so I really appreciate that you carry that mantle forward, and that you have the conviction to do it, because it's helping convict so many other people to come alongside as well, because you've been misunderstood a lot. And you have been spotted with influential people throughout your career. What is something that you are often misunderstood for, that you wish people knew the truth about? Because I don't pay attention. And again, this is a shout out to my wife, in my 20s. I did about to be 40 in August. So I'm not that old. But I used to pay attention. I don't anymore. And because I don't pay attention to those things like the nature of that question. I don't know what what people are thinking, to be honest with you. But what I wish everyone would know is that there's more to the story of what you see in a post. So you know, someone that you might say, Man, that's an influential pastor, How'd you meet that? We could have just went to college together. Which is true for one of my best friends, or, you know, we started off in youth ministry together when nobody knew who we were. And now, people within the subculture of Christianity, by the way, we're not talking about real fame here. You know, might know who somebody is, or if you see me with a, with someone of influence that really is well known in this world. It may be because someone else snapped the picture. But for me, I just want to be able to live on people, because people are people. And I think that the truth of what it is that we believe in is available to all people and all people need it. And people can think that it's a big deal to me. I don't know if they think that but if they do, I would just go man, and you don't you don't know me, my son, big basketball fan, and we're watching the playoffs right now. And there's this athlete that he loves, not gonna say his name, and had the chance to go hang out with him at his house. Well, I was invited. And it would have been like a six hour day hanging with him doing a Bible study, praying with him. But it was a it was a day in between trips. So I declined. And I went home. I only had 25 at home, but my son brings it up all the time. He said, Why didn't you come home? Why didn't you go hang out with so and so? I was like, I want to be with you. He was like, that wasn't worth it? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it is. It was totally worth it. And now in his 16 year old mind, he's gonna think that's something, I miss something in my 39 year old mind that has been around more than enough people. Here's what I've learned. I'm never going to be successful by association. You're guilty by association, but never successful by association, people that are hanging around people that are successful, we call them groupies. By the way, we don't we don't say oh, you know what, because he's hanging out with someone. So we should give them a record deal. We should give them a movie spot, you just go up, I always see them with someone. So I think in order for me to be the best man that I could possibly be, my ducks need to be in a row, they need to be aligned any structure, my structure is God first, then my marriage, then my children, then my ministry. And I don't, I don't allow my schedule to run me, I run my schedule. And there are moments where it gets hectic and it gets busy. But I'm not going to miss moments with my family, just to be around someone that's famous. And let me also say, I might have had a moment like that in the past because it made me I was like, this is a great opportunity. And then I learned it wasn't a breakup. It was it was great. It was an honor that I got to meet someone, but they're just a person with popularity and that I don't know how much that changes my life. Now, if God's gonna open up the door for me to disciple, that person, that's a whole nother story. But just meeting or hanging out with someone, not really a big deal. And then on top of that, I'm not going to allow the discipling of that person to get in the way of me being a dad to my children, because those are the most important disciples that I've been entrusted with. That's such a good point. Wow, we covered a lot of ground in this conversation. And so I just kind of want to close asking if there's anything that's on your heart that we didn't get to that that you would love to share I really loved. I really love what you're doing. And I liked that accidentally. Intentional because I think that intentionality is the result of an accident. For the most part. I think we stumbled into things and the stuff bumbling into things teaches us all, this is how you're supposed to deal with. I didn't think this was a big deal. You know, I was I just went to dinner with someone. And and they invited me to this restaurant. And another one of our friends were meeting us at the restaurant and they wouldn't let him in because he had on shorts. And it was a kind of restaurant where they said no shorts, no hat. So he had to go across the street to the mall, buy a pair of pants. But you know, he'll never do again, he'll never show up to that restaurant in shorts. He'll now be intentional about he moves forward, because accidentally he showed up under dress, which, whatever. I think a lot of that, by the way is life. I think people expect us to know, we don't know. But experience it teaches us and if you're wise, you'll learn from your first experience, how to proceed, how to move forward. That's why I never shame anyone for not knowing something or, or, you know, Miss speaking or making a mistake. Maybe no one ever taught that. You know, there are people that are watching this. And maybe they like my approach, like you said, of just you know how honest I am in my posts. But if no one takes the time to coach them, they might just think that our views are the same on communicating because they just say it out how it is and how maybe after watching this, they call he's, he's honest, but he's a little bit more methodical. And he's a little bit more, you know, thought out as opposed to just saying it to say it. And I just I really love, love that title. Because that is the truth. That's how life works. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Chris, this has truly been an honor to get to talk to you and pick your brain. You've impacted and continue to impact a ton of people. And I'm grateful for not only your work, but also your life and how life giving of a friend you are to so many as well. So thank you so much for being on I can't wait to come back home. If you want to learn more about Chris, see what he's up to and hear more of his thoughts. You can follow him across all social platforms at Chris Durso. I'll have the links in the description below and also know that his books, The Misfits, and the heist are available on Amazon and wherever books are sold. And hey, you know, because we talked about boldness in this episode, I'm gonna be bold, and I'm gonna ask if you would be willing to rate or leave a review, if you're listening to the audio version, on Apple podcasts or Spotify, because reviews really help the show get into the ears of the right audience. And also being a little bold here. Again, if you'd be willing to subscribe to the YouTube channel, or share this episode with someone you care about so that we can all learn how to use boldness in the right way to deepen and better all the relationships in our lives. And as you were listening to this episode, you know that we talked about some relational dynamics that can occur and you might be in a place in your life right now where you're feeling like, your friendships are starting to grow apart, or you're just not seeing eye to eye anymore. So if that is you, you may love this episode, click down here because we actually talk about that very thing, why your friendships might be growing apart and what you can do about it, guys, thank you so much for listening to accidentally intentional work. Our goal is to build relational wealth to become rich in relationships. We'll see you right back here in two weeks.